014 – Forging Nonprofit Partnerships with Kyle J Rose

• Website: https://diabeteswise.org/ and https://idf.org/
• Twitter: @KyleJacquesRose

Full Transcript

Spencer Brooks 00:05

Welcome to Health Nonprofit Digital Marketing, we’re a podcast for nonprofit marketing and communications leaders using the internet to reach and engage people with health issues. I’m your host Spencer Brooks of Brooks digital. We’re a digital agency for health nonprofits. Today I’m joined by Kyle J. Rose. Kyle is a nonprofit veteran who among other things, is a vice president at the International Diabetes Federation. He’s head of strategy at diabetes wise, and he’s also an advisor at DiabetesMine. So, Kyle, first of all, welcome to the show. I’m really excited to have you here today, would you just mind starting off this conversation by sharing with listeners a bit more about who you are and your work?

Kyle Rose 00:50

Thanks a lot for having me on the show, Spencer, I’m excited to be here. I’ve been working in the diabetes space for about 20 years now. And about five years before that I was diagnosed with diabetes myself, I live with Type One diabetes, So I have a personal passion that has really shaped my career. And my career has really bounced around between nonprofits, startups, particularly focusing on diabetes technology, and medical technology. And in the industry side of things, and I think that, you know, it’s kind of a culmination of those that has landed me, you know, where I am today with the projects that you’ve already mentioned.

Spencer Brooks 01:31

Wonderful. Yeah, well, one of the things I know that we were talking about, even prior to this conversation, was your specialty in developing partnerships. And I know, that’s actually broadly applicable to not just the nonprofit world, but also, you know, with startups and industry as well. But I think particularly for nonprofits, that can be a very powerful topic. So, I wanted to start actually, by giving you a chance to just share how you even got started down this partnership track in the first place. Was there, like a particular event that kicked that off? Or how did you get started with it?

Kyle Rose 02:08

Yeah, that’s a good question. Well, so I’m trained as an engineer, I mentioned that I had been involved in a lot of organizations and startups doing work in technology, it’s because I’m trained as an engineer. And some of my first work in the space was actually at device companies working on technology, like continuous blood glucose monitoring, and insulin infusion pumps. However, I went back to school and got my MBA a while ago now. And ever since then, I’ve been more on the commercial side of the organizations that I’ve been working for and very naturally, I think, I fell into the role of working with partners. And I think that there’s something there about my own persona, in terms of, you know, the way that I work well, is in terms of building consensus, whether it’s internally or externally, but also that I’m very much an idealist, and that when I see that there’s good work being done, I don’t want to necessarily have to reinvent the wheel. And I like to be able to collaborate with people across the landscape, which includes a lot of challenges, as we know, particularly on the nonprofit side working, for example, within industry. And so this is something that I’ve just ended up kind of specializing in without having had the intention of doing so perhaps.

Spencer Brooks 03:23

Yeah. Do you think I’m just curious, even as you’re talking, do you think that there’s a specific personality type that just gravitates towards this partnership role? What do you think about the role of just as you mentioned your persona, in this versus just where you happen to be? Do you think it’s more about oh, like, I’m this type of person? Or was it more just like a happenstance of oh, I happen to be in this in this spot and have these values? Do you have any, like, any perspective on that?

Kyle Rose 03:52

I think it’s a combination of the two, I think that when you’ve been working in in the space, like diabetes, which is a small world, where many of us know each other, and we perhaps change hats once in a while, but a lot of us who’ve been here for 20 years know, the some of the other players and I think that quite naturally you tend to build relationships across the space, even if your organizations may even be competing with one another. And so, I think some of the tricky conversations are actually, you know, talking to those folks and figuring out well, how can we work together? And how can we kind of have make a win-win out of this? And, you know, I’m kind of speaking in theoretical terms here. But what I mean by that is, in the nonprofit world, sometimes I feel like we feel like we’re competing for a small pot of money, and that it’s all coming from the same place. But I think that what happens is that we end up sometimes, you know, spending energy on figuring that out instead of really finding out how we can collaborate with one another. And sometimes that means having the difficult conversation of speaking with a direct potential competitor.

Spencer Brooks 05:10

Yeah. And that’s actually it’s funny, as you’re talking, I was sort of penciling down. Yeah, what? What about that competitive mindset. And so actually, I was going to ask you, then, if someone is is partnering up, then instead of thinking of another organization as a competitor, what are actually some of the benefits that someone who is at a nonprofit or in a marketing and communications role, what are some of the benefits that they should actually be looking for in a partnership?

Kyle Rose 05:40

Well, I think, what you’ll find, at least what my experience has been, is that you may have, for example, a community of people out there that you don’t really know how to work with, they’re in your space, maybe they’re particularly vocal, there are some sensitive topics. And I think that my approach has always been to reach out to those groups and to allow them to be heard. And particularly when I’ve been sitting on the side of the industry, speaking with, for example, members of the, of the community of people living with diabetes industry, often for regulatory reasons, or otherwise, doesn’t choose to engage, and particularly in the United States, where they’re worried about liability and so forth, they it’s been easier decision to just say, No, you know, we’ll exist on can’t seem, forget, there’s a podcast with my hands, I’m showing one from the left to the right, you know, will coexist over here. And so, I think that by having those conversations proactively, not only can you learn from perhaps a community that has a lot to offer, but you can also find ways to coexist, and perhaps gain some credibility at the same time.

Spencer Brooks 07:04

It’s a good point. And especially with I would imagine, even borrowing things like audiences, and just getting different eyeballs, as well on your organization sounds like it’d be very helpful. And as you were talking about that, as well, I was drawn back to one of the things you said about your persona, which is building consensus. And I can imagine that if you’re in a room with people that are from vastly different backgrounds, like if you’re in a nonprofit space versus startup versus industry, that the people in that room are going to have very different motivations and very different concerns. And so partnering, I can imagine, it’s actually would be a little bit of a challenge to just align these diverse interests. And so, do you, do you think that’s fair? And when it comes to building consensus? What secrets are inside the head of Kyle J Rose that you could share with listeners?

Kyle Rose 08:09

Well, I know, I think you’ve given me too much credit there. I think that sometimes, unfortunately, the reality is that the goals of the respective organizations and stakeholders in the room are too different to reach that consensus. But by merely having the conversation, I think it allows the different groups to understand each other better. And perhaps that collaboration doesn’t happen right away. Perhaps it happens, you know, a few years down the road. But I think that, you know, there are significant advantages that you can reach by just having that dialogue, including reaching a broader audience, an audience that maybe you wouldn’t have otherwise reached, and working together to reach your respective audiences. I mean, so often in the world of, you know, chronic disease, the people who need the information most are the people we’re not able to reach. And there are a lot of reasons for that. I mean, that’s a whole other conversation, the role models we choose to use, and perhaps our marketing for, for some of the products, the channels that we reach out through, whether it be social media or otherwise. But I think we have to recognize that if each of those decisions along the way, either, you know, restrict or open up the gates to the type of people that engage with the information we’re offering, and that’s something that’s very near and dear to the work we’re doing at a project that you mentioned DiabetesWise, which is funded by the Helmsley Charitable Trust. Our goal is to create a neutral depository of information about diabetes devices for everyone and anyone out there. And I emphasize neutral because, you know, obviously if there’s information provided by a specific manufacturer, there could be a bias there, certainly a perceived bias. And so, what we try to do is culminate all the information together and provide it in a way that’s easy to digest. But along the way, we realized, in addition to providing information and awareness, one of our real goals is to increase the accessibility. And that by empowering people with this information, particularly as we’ve noticed in this last year, more and more in Black and brown communities who don’t have equitable access to health care and, and medicines, that perhaps we can provide the right information, that they feel empowered to advocate for themselves, where they would otherwise not have been a prescribed a device. So that’s a very specific example, but one that is near and dear to my heart that the work that we’re doing on that project,

Spencer Brooks 10:43

Of course, I actually think it’s a great example to bring up because I can see how and you can correct me if I’m wrong here, how that neutral source of information, right, you’re collecting information and resources on these different I think it was different, like tech for diabetes.

Kyle Rose 11:01

That’s right.

Spencer Brooks 11:02

And, and yeah, thank you. And, and so when you’re forging these partnerships, I’m assuming you’re going to like a device manufacturer and saying, Hey, we’re, we’re interested in putting this information on our site, or maybe we’re already covering this, would you be interested in spreading the word and sort of is that how that that partnership effort goes to spread, spread awareness and to increase reach or is there other ways that you’re finding, to develop partnerships  to get the information in front of those folks?

Kyle Rose 11:36

So, in the case of DiabetesWise, we’ve consciously chosen not to accept any funds from manufacturers for the reasons I mentioned, beforehand, but we do very much partner with them to make sure we have the most relevant information about their devices. And for those people not familiar with the diabetes world, some of these devices include blood glucose meters, continuous blood glucose monitors, insulin infusion pumps, connected insulin pens, and there’s been a whole array of of medical technology that’s been developed over the last 15 to 20 years, that still doesn’t have a high degree of adoption in the United States. So, by partnering with the manufacturers, we can find a way to make sure we have the most recent and updated information. And also by partnering with other nonprofits in the diabetes world, we can we hope, at least to be able to reach a broader audience to get that information in their hands.

Spencer Brooks 12:33

That’s very smart. And I could see in a world, nonprofit world where resources, they can be scarce at times, that developing partnerships, is actually seems like a very efficient way of accomplishing just more through strengthening bonds with the people who are in that same space rather than just trying to go at it alone. So that’s very compelling. And I actually I wanted to ask you a little bit more about bias, because you mentioned earlier that you’re getting information from manufacturers, in this case on diabetes wise and, and there, I can imagine that if I was someone coming to that site that, I might wonder, is there a perceived conflict of interest here? So how do you go about staying unbiased in a situation where you’re developing a partnership that actually could potentially have bias if you’re not careful?

Kyle Rose 13:31

It’s a really tough question. It’s a great question because ultimately, I mean, you’re right, we do have some level of bias, we all do. And I think we have to acknowledge that and most importantly, we have to be extremely transparent about our process of how we’re selecting this information, who we’re working with, certainly any funds that we’re receiving, I think that transparency is the key. And I think there are examples in the healthcare world where someone may be working with someone else in the form of an agency or a contract, it’s just not quite clear. You think you’re reading an independent blog and actually, they’re working, they’re being paid by the people they’re writing about, right? And then there’s a number of examples of that, I think that you can certainly obtain a lot more credibility by the broader community, of people living with diabetes in this case, if you’re extremely transparent. And I think there’s a number of examples of bloggers and journalists who do a very good job of that.

Spencer Brook  14:32

Yeah, I think that’s very relevant, just actually for any health organization that might be listening to this that inevitably is probably going to be providing information about, you know, could be different, like drugs or devices or things like that or actually partnering with them. And so I think that’s very good and very timely advice on transparency because I think that’s something that many listeners would be able to hear and hopefully implement. I wanted to switch gears a little bit now. And I know that you are a cultured international man. And so I actually think that’s it’s one of the very unique things about you, Kyle. So, I wanted to get you, just pick your brain a little bit on advice that you might be able to share about navigating these international relationships, especially when there’s cultural differences. And so could you just share a little bit about even that diverse cultural background that you have and how you go about those, those international partnerships?

Kyle Rose 15:43

Sure. And you’re right, I have a little bit of a unusual background in the sense that I grew up half my life in Idaho, USA and the other half in different parts of Europe, namely, in the Alps of France. And what was interesting about that, both personally and professionally is I witnessed two very different healthcare systems to some extent, polar opposites. But also, cultural differences that we’re pretty vast or are pretty vast today. And, and, you know, one example that is very relevant to what we’re discussing, it’s about partnering. And in general, in France, and I hope any franco-français that are, that are listening today would agree with me, I’ll do my best to at least say what I’ve experienced is the in general, in France, the pharma industry is considered evil. Anyone profiteering, as perceived by many, off of people’s health, is considered inherently evil. And so just knowing that, which is different, I would say from the US, there’s some of that in the US, but you know, not nearly to this extent, just knowing that I think you take a very different approach to how you speak about working with, with industrial manufacturers, for example of insulin.

Spencer Brooks 17:04

Yeah, it is a very good point, because I know that many, many organizations, they are working internationally, they could actually be, for example, like developing a network of medical professionals around the world or, you know, in the case of the not just diabetes, but many other industries, there’s , it’s international, there’s not borders on health conditions. So I think that’s, it’s very good to remember that there are those kinds of cultural differences. And so as you’re going into a situation are, maybe let’s say, you’re in a position where you’re going into a cultural situation that’s different than your own. And you maybe you don’t know a lot about that particular culture. Are there any tips that you would share about maybe navigating that or learning or, you know, some things to watch out for, or even the process that you would use to, to start developing a relationship with another organization that that might be in a completely different culture?

Kyle Rose 18:12

I think number one is just be not in a position where you’re making assumptions, but rather, where you’re listening and trying to be sensitive to what you’re, what you’re hearing and unfortunately, I would say Americans are stereotyped to kind of assume one thing works here in the US and pitch that all over the world and we have solutions where they may not work in, you know, the infrastructure culture in different countries,  France being a good example. And so, in the diabetes world, you know, one example of that is, in terms of the technology. You know, there’s assumptions in terms of how people are taking their insulin, in the US, and a good percentage of people with insulin dependent diabetes, or I should say, a reasonable percentage, it’s still not that significant, are using insulin pumps, or, you know, in comparison, excuse me to the rest of the world where the vast majority vast, vast majority are using insulin pens. And so this is just, you know, in terms of making a macro difference on the broader community, people with diabetes, it’s, it’s an important thing to recognize, and not mention, just everything to do with the way you communicate. I’m a big believer, my wife works in localization for one of the big Silicon Valley companies and I’m a big believer in that communication needs to be localized not only translated but localized to the culture of the audience here you’re sending it to.

Spencer Brooks 19:50

Wonderful I know, this could probably could probably be an entire podcast episode just itself on that topic, but you know, such a unique facet of what you bring to the table here that  I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask you about it. So, I wanted to

Kyle Rose 20:07

You’re absolutely right. Not to interrupt. But just maybe one more point on that, you know, the International Diabetes Federation, we’re made up of over, I think it’s 230 different members associations around the world. So, when we have our general assembly, it’s literally like the United Nations of diabetes association. So, you have, you know, you have people with their plaque cards there, you have France over here, and, you know, the Western Pacific region over here, and you have hundreds of people in a room voting on different issues, it really does feel like the UN, there’s different languages, there’s different expectations. And unless I think you have this approach of trying to find a middle ground and not projecting one’s own culture or country on others, then you want to ever make progress. And so that’s something that’s incredibly true at IDF where I’ve spent a lot of my last few years.

Spencer Brook  20:25

Yeah, well, and any listeners who want to get more tips on that, you know, for your if you have member organizations in other countries, Kyle sounds like the guy here so well, I didn’t want to I did want to ask you, Kyle, just switching gears, once again, here to some of my some of the questions I like to ask everyone. What’s one thing that you’re working on right now that’s just consuming a lot of your brain space? And what lessons or takeaways might you be able to share with people who are listening and struggling with that same challenge?

Kyle Rose 21:34

One of the things that comes to mind right away, as we touched on a little bit earlier is how do we and I say we, the organizations that I’m working for, find the voice of the, you know, of the underrepresented, perhaps the people who are most in need of help. How do we get through to them, we have free information that we want to provide that we believe is important to your particular healthcare condition, how do we get through to them? And that is, that’s been a challenge at the startups I work for in diabetes tech, the nonprofits, and at the industry level, it isn’t necessarily a question of how much money you have to pump into marketing. It’s about how you can think of creative ways to reach the community. And sometimes that’s at a grassroots level. And sometimes it’s through community organizations that aren’t at all digital, you know, perhaps these are churches or YMCAs, you know, how do you reach people where they are. And that’s something I haven’t figured out the solution to, and I think many of us are working on it. But I think being creative and partnering is certainly a step in the right direction.

Spencer Brooks 22:46

It’s a very good point to bring up I think, especially because this podcast is really about digital marketing. And it’s easy to forget day to day, but digital doesn’t actually reach everyone, right? There is a divide on even basic access to the internet, both here in the United States and internationally around the world as well. And so I liked that you brought that up, because as much as I think I firmly believe in the role of digital and digital marketing and its ability to reach people and to just, you know, come to to wherever they are, that depends on them being hooked into the system in some ways, or even into the channels in the ways that that are maybe more convenient for organizations to reach. So I think it’s a good point and a good challenge to bring up. If for no other reason, then people who are listening can commiserate with you on that one, but what a resource…

Kyle Rose 23:46

I’m sorry, like I’ve interrupted you already once before. No, but just such an interesting discussion point. I mean, we did a project once when I was working at MySugr, digital health startup in rural America, in Montana. And the assumption, of course, most of the time is people have access to the internet, if they need to, and they have a physical address where they’re staying, well, in this case, this particular project or group of people we’re trying to help. Neither of those were constants. Neither of them were the case. And so we had to think about well, how, you know, here we were, we offered a digital health product that was an application that needed to have, you know, access to the cloud in order to really get that information in the hands of the healthcare professional and be more helpful to that person that was using it. And we had people who didn’t have internet access, and they didn’t necessarily have a consistent address. So how do we ship the supplies to them? And so we came up with a few different approaches on the internet side where, you know, we would actually try to enable Wi Fi hotspots around town, whether it was perhaps the local clinic or pharmacy there’s an Indian health clinic, I believe in this case, and just try to get creative and not make those assumptions. that everyone was going to have access and all the latest in terms of technology, but rather the opposite. And then learn from this group of people.

Spencer Brooks 25:09

That is, it’s a very relevant question to be asking. And actually, it just reminds me of the mantra that it’s always running through my head, at least in you know, the world that I’m working, and it’s just knowing your audience. And if you if you don’t have that basic information, it’s not maybe it’s not basic information, I guess. But if you don’t have the information on what devices people have access to, if any, like, what’s the internet speed, like, you know, there’s a large portion of maybe the lower income population that are just using their mobile data on their phone, right? And so, like, if you’re designing a digital solution for that, you’re going to make different decisions on what you do. Because the internet speed, isn’t that fast? Or do they even in your case, do they even have access to the internet at all and an address, right? But I think it just highlights the need of actually having that understanding and to your point, not making assumptions about things that people have or don’t have, and just challenging those assumptions as much as possible.

Kyle Rose 26:16

And I would encourage, you know, organizations to I know, this is often a resource question, but to try it out, you know, if they have a hunch and say, hey, we haven’t been able to reach these people, let’s send out I don’t know, old school, SMS, you know, text based messages, not assume they have smartphones? Let’s try it out. Let’s see, you know, let’s do some A/B tests and see if we can get, you know, some kind of response and know which way to go.

Spencer Brooks 26:41

Yeah, I love it. Oh, Kyle, I wanted to ask you as well about resources, do you have any resources or good places to go to get more information on news trends, or just other learning, learning materials for the nonprofit world?

Kyle Rose  27:01

You know, I could sit here and try to lecture about mobile, you know, mobile phone, cell phone advertising, you know, search engine optimization, social media conversations, but I’m not a marketeer by training. So, I’m not going to do that, because there’s probably members of your audience that are much more well versed than me. But what I would say is that, I think sometimes we forget about common sense approaches, in terms of the stories that the that resonate, I use the word stories, you know, storytelling has now become something that people are really focusing on, it seems like so much common sense, you want to hear the stories from people, so it resonates with other people. In the case of healthcare, it’s so incredibly personal. And I know you’ve discussed this in previous podcast, the journey that people go through, that diagnosis, you know, the years that follow, the interactions with family care members, the struggles, I think that any way we can find to highlight a diversity of stories to tell on behalf of people living with a chronic disease, it will resonate, and it will resonate strongly, and particularly in the nonprofit world, it will create a grassroots community, it will, it will provide credibility to what you’re doing. And, you know, I would say, it goes back to our original discussion point, you know, partnering with people that are doing great things, when you have aligned missions will help you reach, I think, a level of success that you could never have imagined an army of grassroots community people that are, you know, trying to tell your message for you. Instead of, you know, instead of spending money on sponsored messaging, sometimes can be a lot more effective.

Spencer Brooks 28:53

It’s great advice. And I think I’m tempted to, to add things to it. But I think that it’s perfectly said just by you. So I’m going to resist the urge to add more of my own thoughts. And let the words of Kyle J. Rose here speak for themselves. But Kyle, we’re running out of time here, unfortunately. So could you give listeners any contact information links, or other ways that they can get in touch with you if they’d like to learn more about your work?

Kyle Rose 29:26

Sure. And actually, I always like to end my interviews with a quote, too. So, may I do that before I give the information?

Spencer Brooks 29:34

Of course, of course.

Kyle Rose 29:35

So, this, this is very relevant to what we’ve been discussing. And it’s actually one, there’s a bunch of variations of it. But the one that I’ve seen most recently was from late MP, Joe Cox, in the UK, that said, we are far more united and have far more in common than that which divides us and so I think, you know, that for me, tells so much of the journey I’ve taken in the nonprofit world, if we can find ways to partner and work together, we’ll accomplish a lot more because that, that, that overlap of what we’re doing is actually a heck of a lot stronger than maybe the different points of our organizations. Thank you for allowing me that.

Spencer Brooks 30:17

Of course. No, that’s a wonderful, I feel like it’s one of those that you frame and put in your office somewhere, right. And, you know, for those for those listening as well, I think I’ll transcribe and put that in the show notes, as well. So, we can get to have that for reference, if you want to copy and paste it, you know, print it out somewhere. Wonderful.

Kyle Rose 30:35

Some of the some of the websites and locations where you can find the work that I’ve discussed would include diabeteswise.org, idf.org. And then I’m also on Twitter at @KyleJacquesRose.

Spencer Brooks 30:51

Wonderful. Well, that wraps up our show today for everyone who’s listening. Thank you so much for tuning in today to listen to Kyle, give his wonderful wisdom on partnerships. We are a new podcast. So again, please consider rating and reviewing us on Apple podcasts, wherever you’re listening. It’s a huge help to get others access to this awesome information and wisdom. And this show as well, is part of the thought education of Brooks digital. We are a digital agency for health nonprofits, as I mentioned, and what we do is empower organizations to create better health outcomes by helping their digital platforms stay on the leading edge of today’s competitive online environment. So, if you like this podcast, feel free to go to our website., it’s Brooks.digital, you can find more insights like this other podcasts, articles, can also download a free report on digital benchmarks for health nonprofits. So, with all that housekeeping out of the way, Kyle, thanks again so much for coming on the show today, for sharing all of your thoughts and your wisdom with listeners.

Kyle Rose 31:57

Thank you.